20/08

The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Healthcare Chaplaincy

In welcoming members of Council to the Palace of Westminster, Mr Mike Penning MP, Chair of the APG explained the purposes and background of the proposals for the APG. In response, the Chairman noted that the formation of the APG had attracted great interest and he and the Council were grateful for the initiative which had been taken and the depth of commitment to chaplaincy which this represented.

Mr Penning explained that the APG had been formed as a result of Members' concerns about healthcare chaplaincy in England which had been seen as being subject to managerial restrictions without consideration to its special nature and status. He and his fellow MPs had variously come across chaplains during their parliamentary work either in visits or in meetings and correspondence. The overall view was that chaplains were valued highly but that the support and organisation of their work often seemed to lack order.

The APG was therefore intending to hold an enquiry about the state of chaplaincy in England so that questions could be put to Ministers in the Autumn. The enquiry would take the form of a request for evidence from which formal evidence sessions with the APG could be structured. From the evidential sessions would emerge a report for discussion with Ministers. The APG was to be supported by an allocation of time from HCC resources which had kindly been made available by the HCC Chairman, the Bishop of Gloucester.

Mr Penning indicated that he wanted the widest possible submission of evidence and that he wished to cast the enquiry and its call for evidence in terms which attracted as many bodies as possible to submit. The APG would determine who might then be called to give evidence in person. He indicated that the APG wished to request submissions before the House rose and would take evidence when it returned.

Mr Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin raised his community's concerns that chaplaincy was much neglected and regarded as a non-essential part of healthcare. He hoped that the APG would seek to convince NHS Executives of its value and that whole-person care should include spiritual care. Currently, chaplaincy seemed a fragmented service for which the national guidance was implemented painfully slowly. In response, Mr Penning acknowledged these concerns both for patients and also for staff. He hoped that the APG Enquiry would identify the best chaplaincy practice and develop a template whereby this could be implemented widely.

Hon Barney Leith raised the concerns common to the smaller faith communities. He referred to the difficulties which arose because the members of the Community were widely spread and it was therefore difficult to make provision without considerable investment by the Faith Community itself. He considered that there was need for a clear signal from the Department of Health about their commitment and support for chaplaincy-spiritual care to encourage this investment. The current uncertainty as instanced over their extremely small allocation (£700 per faith community) was not encouraging. In response, Mr Penning indicated his agreement on the need for certainty but acknowledged that the difficult NHS financing position might also have seen chaplaincy as “soft” target. He did not endorse this approach and intended that the APG should review these aspects of delivering services and comment where necessary.

Revd Debbie Hodge explained that, although some faith communities were in receipt of larger grants from the central allocation, these were also subject to in-year uncertainty. This was in some aspects more difficult because staff were employed against these allocations and the faith community was expected to carry the risk of redundancy and uncertainty. Mr Penning suggested that there was a need to consider how to engender confidence in a longer view. He hoped that the contract framework could be improved so that a five-year timescale was more common and that a more proactive approach was possible.

The Rt. Revd Tom Williams suggested there was a need to clarify the contractual relationship between the chaplain, the NHS Trust and the appropriate faith community. The managerial emphasis within the NHS needed to take account of the faith community's oversight both of the faith-based elements of the chaplain's work and also the spiritual well being of the chaplain and other members of the faith community. Chaplaincy needed to reflect the diversity of the local community and Mr Penning supported this in the multi-faith context as well as supporting the more general point that access to spiritual care was an important principle for managers to uphold.

In answer to a general question in support of a clearer value set for the NHS, Mr Penning hoped that clarity about values and the underlying purpose of the NHS would emerge as an important outcome of the APG's work.

The Council thanked Mr Penning for his clear explanation of the APG's intention and hoped that they could assist in a significant way. Mr Penning confirmed his intention that the APG should work closely with the MFGHC and looked forward to “making a difference” over the coming months.

21/08

MFGHC assistance to the APG

The Chair suggested there were one or two issues on which the MFGHC might provide urgent briefing and that the most important of these was probably over the finance aspects of the central allocation for hospital chaplaincy. He agreed to write to Mr Penning and to clear his draft note with Council so that there was unanimity and consensus of view. It was agreed that this approach should be adopted as the MFGHC policy.

22/08

Welcome

Revd Steve Barnes was welcomed to the meeting as an alternate for Revd David Mitchell

23/08

Apologies for absence

Apologies for absence were received from Mr Kobad Avari, Ervad Rustam Bhedwar, Revd Nigel Goodfellow, Mr Simon Goulden, Mr Peter Hulme, Revd Derek Johnston, Mr Baldev Singh Mawi, Mr Jayman Mehta, Revd David Mitchell, Mr Keith Munnings, Mr Kishor Ruparelia, Revd Fr Peter Scott and Mrs Deborah Wheeler.

24/08

Minutes

The minutes of the meeting held on 15 th January 2008 were agreed.

25/08

Links to Ministers and Officials in England over health policy issues (ref min 5/08)

It was reported that no further advice had been received as to how best to link with Ministers and Officials over healthcare policy issues. Members were concerned about both the NHS and DH aspects of this advice and contrasted the situation in England with that in other parts of the UK where chaplaincy-spiritual care seemed to be valued as part of the NHS. It was agreed to suggest that a member of the Group might raise this via a written PQ.

26/08

Impact of dress codes on faith communities (ref min 6/08)

The Council received a copy of the notes of the round-table discussion held at the Department of Health in January 2008. The Administrator had represented MFGHC at this meeting. Mr Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin reported that the first meeting of the working group to put these issues in a culturally sensitive manner had been held on 2 nd May and a further meeting was panned for June.

27/08

MFGHC work programmes (ref min 7/08)

It was noted that individual work programmes for issues arising during the leadership seminar would be circulated at the September meeting.

There was strong support for the work concerned with defining the spirit and values of the NHS as this was thought to be likely to help with current issues of low morale and esteem amongst staff.

28/08

Relationships between the different chaplaincy bodies (ref min 9/08)

Revd Steve Barnes asked for clarification of the minute about “poor relationships between the different chaplaincy bodies” as he had been informed that this was a matter of the past and that relations were good. The Administrator apologised for the rather opaque wording which in essence referred to the relationship between the leadership of the College of Health Care Chaplains and that of several other faith-based groups including the Hospital Chaplaincies Council.

He reminded members that there was a history to these poor relations between the leaders of the bodies which arose from events of 2002. Relationships had not improved despite several attempts to assist by different parties since then. There seemed no reason why the two bodies could not work together as the College worked with other membership bodies and the HCC worked with both faith-based and membership bodies. It was of great regret that the healing of this rift was not seen as an imperative to the current leaders and that every effort was not being made to reconcile the varying positions.

Concern was expressed about recent comment at a meeting of chaplains to the effect that these problems could not be solved because of intransigence on the part of HCC staff. Edward Lewis confirmed that this statement was terminologically incorrect and that both the members and the staff of HCC were keen to see these problems resolved.

Council members commented again that these divisions did not encourage the full support for chaplaincy required to make the NHS and Department of Health commitment more solid. At the same time, other chaplains than those in leadership positions were not clear why this problem could not be solved. The Council suggested that this issue might be discussed further at the September meeting.

29/08

Supporting the development of a curriculum for healthcare chaplaincy (ref min 10/08)

Revd Debbie Hodge reported that the HEIs represented at the December 2007 meeting over chaplaincy education were due to meet for a second time to see how best a curriculum for healthcare chaplaincy could be developed and agreed.

30/08

National Occupational Standards for healthcare chaplaincy (ref min 10/08)

Revd Debbie Hodge also reported that the proposed second meeting between representatives of CAAB and the Education Committee over work towards a statement of National Occupational Standards for healthcare chaplaincy had been postponed by CAAB.

31/08

The engagement of chaplains in public institutions

The Council noted that the Experience Corps had been commissioned by the Department of Communities and Local Government (CLG) to undertake work on the engagement of chaplains in public institutions. The draft report of this work and the output concerned with standards and with recruitment had been circulated with the agenda.

The consultation questionnaire on these latter two issues requiring a response by 2 nd May had been circulated to the Standards Committee and the Executive Committee for comment. The final version of the response by MFGHC was tabled for information. Members endorsed the response made on their behalf and were grateful for those who had contributed comment at such short notice.

Mr Chowdhury Mueen-Uddin commented on the need for all to combat extremism and there was some surprise that this issue was being handled in this way and worry that chaplaincy was being designated within issues of homeland security. It was suggested that some confusion existed over the Government's approach to this issue and that there had been some changes in approach which did not all accord with the compact with the third sector.

32/08

Recruiting Bahá'í healthcare chaplains

Hon Barney Leith reported progress with recruiting Bahá'í chaplains with a planned training course in September 2008.

33/08

Report of the Chair/ Vice Chair – May 2008

The Chair reported on his day with Chichester Chaplains in April and the Vice Chair on his presentation to the Trent CHCC Branch in March.

34/08

Dates for the diary

The Chief Officer suggested that the following dates should be noted:

• Opening of the Chaplaincy Centre, Cardiff University – 16th June
• National Service for the 60 th Anniversary of the NHS, Westminster Abbey – 2nd July
• Norman Autton Memorial Lecture, London – 19th November

34/08

Date of next meeting

It was agreed that the next meeting should be held on Thursday 11th September 2008 at CTBI Offices, Waterloo.